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Star Trek game firing arcs

Major Diarrhia
Oct 2nd 2005, 11:03pm
I'm trying to help with the fan game The Neutral Zone 2, it's a Star Trek game. http://tnz2.cateia.com/index.php
I have a big problem with how the firing arcs and torpedo counts are turning out. It looks like they are going to be arbitrarily limited in arc and number respectively.

The new graphics guy came up with this for the firing arcs.
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8632/galaxyfof015td.gif (http://imageshack.us/)

I don't mind it split into five sections each with its own firing point, I'm not programing the game and I think it would probably take a long time, if not be impossible, to program a proper phaser array with infinite firing points along an arc and for it to break into smaller arrays when damaged significantly. What I didn't like was the idea of the individual sections working like individual array. I ended up describing the arcs as being able to maintain fire outside of their targeting section and the art guy came up with this.
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2249/galaxypst017rt.gif (http://imageshack.us/)

It's fine, except it still has the arbitrary firing angle limit toward the rear and secondary arrays. If you were to follow the firing plan to its logical conclusion in the use of the tangent, then the two rear most firing points and secondary arrays, should be able to fire straight back and at 180 degrees, respectively.

I want the arcs to be able to have as much coverage as possible. This example doesn't have have the torpedo launchers, I want the forward and rear ones to be able to hold 10 torpedoes each and firing them all at once. I also want all ships with bottom arrays to be able to use them, even though they will be hidden in this 2D game.
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4143/galaxyarrays031oi.gif (http://imageshack.us/)

It's basically decided I think that only one beam will fire at a time.

His argument against my scheme is that it's too complicated, that it will confuse players, since with mine the tail arrays can narrowly fire fowrard, and various other things such as ten torpedoes from a single tube being too many from an artistic viewpoint and from a gameplay viewpoint. However I don't see it at all, it just looks right to me and is consistent with the way things work, or at least should work. One last thing, I think the Akira should have ten forward torpedo tubes, with two torpedo tubes on port and starboard, and eight more at aft in a fan pattern, each holding four torpedoes. What do you think about that?

So, from the basis of game play, which firing arcs do you think are better and most importantly, why do you think that?

Palp
Oct 2nd 2005, 11:48pm
I think Spacedock did a very good jobb on ship weapons and their placements and fireing arcs..you may want to have a look at it..SRM 1

http://www.coldnorth.com/memoryicon/spacedock/spacedock.htm

note that the arcs are given in 3d..wich is why they have such high degrees..more info on page 136 of the spacedock pdf.

Palp
Oct 3rd 2005, 12:13am
I would like to see proper fireing arcsand amount of weapons..and proper amounts of weapons fiering at once..I hated how they handeled it in bridge commander. It felt simplified and boring :D

dacis2
Oct 3rd 2005, 3:29am
I prefer one point on the array firing at a target, not switching portions of the array. that just doesn't fit with the show.

the multiple torpedoes thing is good though, the E-D always fired in bursts.

LordChaos
Oct 3rd 2005, 5:49am
From a GAME point of view, I prefer his firing arcs. Simpler, cleaner, forces players into more descision making such as loosing a section of phaser.

yes, I understand your firing arcs, and why you think they should be. But from a gaming point of view, I don't like them.

Major Diarrhia
Oct 3rd 2005, 9:09am
But the way the main array will work in both systems is that it will act as one weapon even though it has the five firing points. Each point is in a desroyable hull section and is really there just to give a closer feeling of single-array-ness. With both systems, there is also only going to be one shot at a time, so the first shot could always be from the main array with the right arcs but then you still have to manuver for the other arcs and the torpedoes still have limited arcs.

Thanks Palp, I didn't think of looking at the pen and paper games.

Alyeska
Oct 3rd 2005, 10:08am
I wouldn't fuck up weapon counts. The Akira class has 15 torpedo launchers with 11 of them forward firing (no aft launchers).

Major Diarrhia
Oct 3rd 2005, 10:33am
Look at the far right image, you can see the same detail on the rear.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5355/akiratorp8ts.jpg[/url]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/6556/akiratorprear4tl.gif (http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5355/akiratorp8ts.jpg)

Sorry I don't have the full images but they are of the actual model used in the movie, it appeared in one of the Trek magazines.

Alyeska
Oct 3rd 2005, 12:59pm
And I've had a look at the wire mesh model of the Akira. Its stated to have 15 torpedo launchers. I can physicaly count 11 forward launchers. 7 in the torpedo pod, 4 around the deflector.

Major Diarrhia
Oct 3rd 2005, 5:39pm
Was it the picture of the mesh with no texture, just lines, and did it show the rear? Because that picture above of the rear of the pod with the blue oval is from the actual mesh too from Star Trek Magazine, although it is a picture I can't find the complete one of. Pedro's Shiporama also has isographic views of the ship from Star Trek Magazine that also show rear torpedo tube details matching the set of four forward ones. http://www.shiporama.org/akira.htm

Maybe these are the mesh images your refering?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/MajorD/Star%20Trek/akira3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/MajorD/Star%20Trek/da-4.gif

It seems weird to me to have what apears to be the same exact torpedo tube detail and not have it be a torpedo tube.

Here's the post I made on the issue at the other forum.
The same feature on the front appears twice on the back, as indicated by it appearing on the one side, on the rear, in this picture below, and the overall symmetry of the design, which indicates there is one more on the opposite rear side of the torpedo pod. It is also plane to see that the torpedo tubes are fanned out, rather than all pointing in one direction.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/5355/akiratorp8ts.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
Above, on the far left you can see torpedoes coming from below the bow of the ship. Here's a close up of the launcher it self.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4852/akirabowtorps6lq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
The same detail can be seen below the main launchers on the torpedo pod, in the final design sketch of the ship.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/1412/akira63el.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
Next we have the side torpedo tubes. They appear clearly in the sketch and we can see that on the actual mesh used in the movie they appear as well.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5660/akirasidetorpssketch9jb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6025/akirasidetorpsmodel8mv.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
Some may still doubt what they. However, they share a common shape to that of Voyager's torpedo tubes and those of the Enterprise-E.
http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/art/images/clv-2.jpg
http://www.lcarscom.net/fsd/art/images/clv-5.jpg
http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/7528/gsovereignphotons11yj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/3033/sovereigndish24vh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)


 

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