Font panel MIA!

Well, I'd suggest two general tips. One, create a new user, and see if the problem persists while using the new user. If so, we should be able to narrow the problem down some. If that doesn't work, you can always reinstall OS X.

You might try the macfixit forums, though they weren't all too helpful the past times I've been there.

Ok.. I saw your post earlier, but didn't have any concrete ideas, but if we're grasping at straws, I'm game! ;)

Did you install *any* additional fonts after reinstalling the OS?

When you run Textedit, and do a command-T (open font panel) what exactly happens?

In the terminal cd to /System/Library/Fonts and do an ls -a? Paste the results so we can see what's in your fonts folder.

As far as other forums, i frequent MacNN (http://www.forums.macnn.com)

any illuminating messages in console or system.log?

check them early after a restart because i believe that font handling is loaded pretty early for all apps.

the muted startup tone IS a problem because that's when other system malfunctions are reported. like the sad mac sound or the sound of a stack of plates dropping on the floor means something at startup.

can you boot to open firmware via command-option-O-F ?

if so, you could try a

> reset-all

I don't know if this is your problem, but I had an issue with Carbon apps where the font panel took ages and ages to appear. I mean, like type apple -t in Create or Text Edit, then go make coffee, bath children watch t.v and then it might eventually appear. When it did appear i noticed that there were a lot of fonts not identified by name in the panel - they were called "--font 6879--" or somesuch. Not hard to figure that x was having a problem recognising them. I tried Font Doctor X which did not help, but it did have some useful info. In the end, I set a couple of hours aside and began working through /Library/Fonts, ~/Library/Fonts and the Classic Fonts folder. Using a simple compare names strategy I managed to remove to a new folder the 50 or so fonts on board that were not recognised. Now the font panel appears within 2 secs.

But not content with that I then downloaded TRANS TYPE 2.0.2 (demo) from <http://www.fontlab.ch/> and it was able to convert about 40% of the unrecognised ones into Mac Type 1 fonts, and they became usable. Your mileage may vary - but good luck.

BTW I have about 400 fonts - or at least I do now.

Regards

Thanks for the responses, all! I'll start with the listing from "ls -a" in the terminal for my fonts directory:

. LucidaGrande.dfont
.. Monaco.dfont
.coveredCharCache Osaka.dfont
.default.fcache OsakaMono.dfont
Apple LiGothic Medium.dfont Symbol.dfont
AppleGothic.dfont Times.dfont
AquaKanaBold.dfont ZapfDingbats.dfont
AquaKanaRegular.dfont ???????????????????????? Pro W4.otf
Courier.dfont ????????????????????? Pro W3.otf
Geneva.dfont ????????????????????? Pro W6.otf
Hei.dfont ???????????????????????? Pro W3.otf
Helvetica.dfont ???????????????????????? Pro W6.otf
Keyboard.dfont ???????????????????????? Std W8.otf
LastResort.dfont

...Sure looks cryptic to me! What does it TELL me? I actually have many more fonts than the ones that are listed 'normally' above. I just checked, and there are 117 items in there, but quite a few are printer fonts (I've never known if I even NEED those, but it wasn't a problem in my previous OS X installation...).

Now I'll check into some of your other suggestions, and check back with results later.

Thanks again!
John

Actually, that terminal output is supposed to be two columns. I don't know how to get it to appear correctly in the thread; it looked fine while I was composing... Maybe if you view it in your browser with a fixed-width font? Fonts, fonts, fonts...

I'm off to try an Open Firmware boot... BTW, what does that reset command DO in Open Firmware?

I'll be back...

John

Originally posted by jiclark
Thanks for the responses, all! I'll start with the listing from "ls -a" in the terminal for my fonts directory:

...Sure looks cryptic to me! What does it TELL me?
John

Well, it tells ME that your folder is exactly identical to mine, and mine works fine.. I *think* this would narrow it down to something in the OS 9 side, as I very, very rarely use classic, and have installed no additional fonts on that side of the equation.

Go ahead and try some of the other suggestions here, as I once again have no clue. ;)

Okay,

A little more info: I'm logged in as a new user. The font panel works! I didn't do anything different from the last install that worked just fine for me. I just copied the non-default fonts that were in my previous /Library/Fonts folder into the new one...

Very interesting. I'll keep experimenting with your suggestions, and checking back. I really appreciate you attempting to help me out.

John

Just been over to OS X forums at Apple, and found the following solution: trash the system cache files (including invisible ones) in /System/Library/Caches. You have to log in as Root to do it, (or maybe in the terminal?). I'm noting this as the problem may reappear...

Good luck

As I hit 'submit' on the above message, I realized that I'd cd-ed to the wrong directory in your suggestion above, because my fonts are all in /Library/Fonts/ NOT /System/Library/Fonts/! Soooo, here's the corrected "ls -a":

. ClearBol KorinReg
.. ClearBolIta MarkerFelt.dfont
.DS_Store ClearHea MendoRomBol
.default.fcache ClearHeaIta MendoRomBolIta
AmericanTypewriter.dfont ClearReg MendoRomBoo
Apple Heads:Text ClearRegIta MendoRomBooIta
AppleGarBol Comic Sans MS MendoRomMed
AppleGarBolIta Copperplate.dfont MendoRomMedIta
AppleGarBoo Courier New NewBasBol
AppleGarBooIta Didot.dfont NewBasBolIta
AppleGarLig EnviroD NewBasIta
AppleGarLigIta Espy Sans NewBasRom
AppleGaramond Screen Futura.dfont Nueva ODS
AppleHea GaramBol NuevaBolExt
AppleTex GaramBolCon NuevaRom
AppleTexIta GaramBolConIta Optima.dfont
Arial GaramBolIta Papyrus.dfont
Arial Black GaramBooCon SouveDem
Arial Narrow GaramBooConIta SouveDemIta
Arial Rounded Bold GaramLig SouveLig
Baskerville.dfont GaramLigCon SouveLigIta
BigCaslon.dfont GaramLigConIta Tekto
BragaITC GaramLigIta TektoBol
BragaITC.afm GaramUltCon TektoBolObl
BragaSCITC GaramUltConIta TektoMM
BragaSCITC.afm Georgia TektoMMObl
Braganza ITC GillSans.dfont Tekton
Braganza SC ITC HelveticaNeue.dfont Tekton MM
BraganzaITC TT Herculanum.dfont TiepoBla
BraganzaSCITC TT ITC Caslon 224 TiepoBlaIta
Brush Script ITC Clearface TiepoBol
CasloTwoTweFouBla ITC Garamond 1 TiepoBolIta
CasloTwoTweFouBlaIt ITC Garamond Condensed TiepoBoo
CasloTwoTweFouBol ITC Korinna TiepoBooIta
CasloTwoTweFouBolIt ITC Mendoza Roman Times New Roman
CasloTwoTweFouBoo ITC New Baskerville Trebuchet MS
CasloTwoTweFouBooIt ITC Souvenir 1 Verdana
CasloTwoTweFouMed ITC Tiepolo Webdings
CasloTwoTweFouMedIt KorinBol Zapfino.dfont
ClearBla KorinKurBol
ClearBlaIta KorinKurReg

Now THAT's all my fonts... Including the printer fonts. Doesn't really seem to help all that much, since we discovered that the font panel works under a new user. I guess I'll try the Open Firmware trick? That was for fixing the no-startup-chime issue though, wasn't it??? Very confusing...

I'll be back!
John

Checked Console, and here's some stuff that looks suspect (I tried to open the font panel twice from Text Edit):

2002-02-16 15:22:25.525 TextEdit[575] *** Assertion failure in -[NSMenu itemAtIndex:], NSMenu.m:552
2002-02-16 15:22:25.528 TextEdit[575] Invalid parameter not satisfying: (index >= 0) && (index < (_itemArray ? CFArrayGetCount(_itemArray) : 0))
2002-02-16 15:22:38.906 Terminal[578] *** Assertion failure in -[NSMenu itemAtIndex:], NSMenu.m:552
2002-02-16 15:22:38.907 Terminal[578] Exception raised during posting of notification. Ignored. exception: Invalid parameter not satisfying: (index >= 0) && (index < (_itemArray ? CFArrayGetCount(_itemArray) : 0))
Feb 16 15:23:51 localhost lookupd[239]: DNSAgent: dns_send_query_server - timeout for 204.144.177.2

2002-02-16 15:34:19.136 TextEdit[575] font cache data has changed.
2002-02-16 15:34:19.364 TextEdit[575] *** Assertion failure in -[NSMenu itemAtIndex:], NSMenu.m:552
2002-02-16 15:34:19.367 TextEdit[575] Invalid parameter not satisfying: (index >= 0) && (index < (_itemArray ? CFArrayGetCount(_itemArray) : 0))

That "Assertion failure..." looks like it might be relevant, eh? Let me know what it means to you.

Thanks, John

P.S. There are a whole BUNCH of lines (25) from the beginning of the log that say: "SystemUIServer[553] Warning: TIFF image with unknown extra samples assumed to have unassociated alpha. RGB values have been premultiplied" What does that mean? How are we supposed to know what to do about ANY of the things in there? There's one about a Mouseworks service not being able to be found, and some other wild stuff as well...

Did you do TDev's suggestion with your cache files?

Did you do TDev's suggestion with your cache files?

Yep, and still no luck... :mad:

I'd love for merv or some other UNIX expert to look at that Console log and tell me what that means. Every time I try and get the font panel to open using 'command-T', I get the "*** Assertion failure in -[NSMenu itemAtIndex:], NSMenu.m:552" message in the Console...

What does that mean, and how do I fix it? That's the crux of the deal, I think.

most likely bad font(s) somewheres.

have you eliminated the OS9 font problems?

if not, shutdown classic. clean out your OS9 font folder. test again. you may have to reboot to clear OSX's head.

clean out fonts you added to OSX /Library/Fonts, too.

in short, return to vanilla OSX font profile and see if that's stable. then go from there.

Man, this is frustrating! I don't have Classic running at all! I have a completely "vanilla" install of OS 9.2.1, with nothing but the fonts installed by the OS installer. Do I have to throw all those away? Even if I'm not running Classic?

Then, I should take out all non-Apple-installed fonts from /Library/Fonts/, restart, and see if things work from there? The font panel WORKS under a different user, same complete font folder... Why doesn't a bad font take out that user's font panel?

This is driving me crazy, obviously, and it is just incomprehensible that all this logged info does me no good!?! What is it for then?

Sigh...

Sorry, had to vent there a bit...

I'm going to go do something else for awhile.
John

--
I'm going to go do something else for awhile.
--

capital idea. as long as it doesn't entail cleaning your weaponry...

let's slow down here and establish some facts:

you've got a bazillion 3rd party fonts in OS9 system folder "Fonts"

you've copied some of them to /Library/Fonts, and perhaps to ~/Library/Fonts

so let's itemize the font folders we need to be concerned with and note them:

/System/Library/Fonts/ - standard system fonts - not to be messed with
/Library/Fonts/ - override /system, fonts available to all users
~/Library/Fonts/ - override /library, fonts for specific user
OS9:System Folder:Fonts - prolly loaded for all users, override unknown


if you have an OS9 install (as you should at this juncture), OSX goes and loads fonts from the "System Folder:Fonts" on your OS9 install. this is so that your old documents with all their crazy (unwise) fonts schemes will look the same.

clean out OS9 system folder fonts? yes. if you clean them all out, don't launch classic, tho. some are needed by default and classic'll gak.

since you say a new user don't have your user problems, then how about your ~/Library/Fonts ? are there wonkies in there? can't see that you've checked there, yet.

slow, clear, methodical changes and testing ought to ferret out the font problem, if that's what it is.

Originally posted by mervTormel
let's slow down here and establish some facts:

you've got a bazillion 3rd party fonts in OS9 system folder "Fonts"

No! As I said above, I have a default install OS 9.2.1 font folder; no 3rd party fonts in there!

you've copied some of them to /Library/Fonts, and perhaps to ~/Library/Fonts

Well, almost, but simpler. I've got the "bazillion" 3rd party fonts ONLY in my /Library/Fonts directory. There are NO fonts in ~/Library/Fonts. When I mentiond copying fonts, it was from the old hard drive with my previous OS X.1.2 install, to the new hard drive. And they all worked in my previous install; there is no change from that!

since you say a new user don't have your user problems, then how about your ~/Library/Fonts ? are there wonkies in there? can't see that you've checked there, yet.

Again, there are no fonts in ~/Library/Fonts.

The only folder with possible "wonkies" is /Library/Fonts, and since that WORKS for the second user I created, I don't think wonkies are my problem. Can you convince me otherwise?

Thanks for sticking with me on this. I'm pretty close to cleaning my firearms, let me tell ya...

Next?

okay, sorry, john, once the posts start getting noisy with font names, my eyes cross and my weaponry starts a callin' to me.

perhaps we're looking at this wrong. that it is not fonts, per se, but the support structure for the font panel.

hmmm. that textEdit error referring to fonts is indicative of something here, i just don't know what. that it seems fontish had led us on an unsound adventure into font hell.

have you run any of those "localize this!" type apps that are supposed to go thru your install and delete foreign language fonts?

and please examine the system.log for messages around the same time those textedit/terminal assertions came up in your console.

% more /var/log/system.log

we might be looking for something more insidious than a bad font. more log info equals gooder...

"SystemUIServer[553] Warning: TIFF" ... no worries there, but

"There's one about a Mouseworks service not being able to be found, and some other wild stuff as well"...

hmmm, just how customized is your rig? are there a lot of third party hardware dongles and login items? you might want to vanilla-ize your install as much as possible.

could you zip up your relevant /var/log/system.log and /var/tmp/console.log and email them to me? i'll pm my emx 2 u.


thinking... (clang clang)