2nd DOW expansion on the way.

Speculation on the new race/s?

How about a link to the news article?

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=96376&p=irol-newsArticle_print&ID=809933&highlight=

Two new races. Tau confirmed as one of them.

The other new one is probably Necrons, though they may surprise with a Dark Eldar, although I think Necrons would be more deserving, even though they'd have to get nerfed a lot fluffwise to fit into the game (but that's really already been done to extents with the space marines, so it's not a really big deal).

Anyway, awesome!

Yeah I'd expect the Necrons, they've already laid some groundwork for them in Winter Assault, and the way they appeared to play, which was slow but utterly relentless, is a playstyle completely new to the game. I dunno what they'll do with Tau, the Guard and Marines are already as shooty as it gets.

Well, I think it'll be either Nid's or Sisters to go along with Tau. They're probably going to release in an Imperial Non-Imperial order.

Hopefully they'll also do some tweaks, like giving Guard some infantry-based AT...I wonder how they managed to do Guard without that.

Hopefully they'll also do some tweaks, like giving Guard some infantry-based AT...I wonder how they managed to do Guard without that.

It's fucking ludicrous, they should have had attachable heavy weapons just like the Eldar. They had the game mechanic already RIGHT THERE! And it would have made more sense for the Guard than the Eldar!

I was going to post this, but you guys beat me to it. I will point out that Relic has stated they won't do 'Nids, because they can't really do them justice with the current game engine and mechanics.

Guys, STOP ASKING FOR MOAR RACES :p

Damn it, I wanted the Tyranids :( ah well next time...

I wonder what bonus units will be released with the present races?

I wonder what bonus units will be released with the present races?

SMs: Veteran Tac-squads? Land Raider Crusaders? A return to good old modular Preds?

Chaos: Bloodletters perhaps? (Going with that Khornate theme.) Or a Daemon Prince?

Eldar: Striking Scorpions?

Orks: Err... Battlewagons perhaps? Uber-Mega-Armored Nobz?

IG: Hmmph. Rough Riders? Infantry HW-teams? (Yes please!) Penal Batallions?

They could fix the tech-tree! IMO, it was much better in vanilla DOW.

Damn it, I wanted the Tyranids :( ah well next time...

Kinda hard to fit into the game.:(

Too had to get the swarm effect pretty much...

It would be cool if a Chaos force could choose which God to follow, if any, by 'researching' a specific add-on shrine to their main building, and no others can be built after that, it's a locked decision. The choice would change how the army fights.
Slaanesh would produce faster forces supported by Daemonettes (all minor Daemons would replace the current Tzeentch flamers). Secondary abilities would reduce enemy accuracy with the infamous soporofic musk and 'attraction'. The Keeper of Secrets would be the weakest of the Greater Daemons, but the fastest, a scary proposition since it is still powerful but can move swiftly to attack anywhere.
Tzeentch would keep the flamers, and concentrate on a force of superior infiltrators that is otherwise well balanced. The Keeper of Secrets would similarly be a middle range foe, concentrating more on area affect psychic attacks in its repertoire, very good for massively disrupting enemy forces.
Nurgle forces would be slower but tougher, and capable of releasing plagues and area affect attacks that harm or reduce the effectiveness of the enemy. The Unclean One would obviously be an almost impossible to kill blob.
Khorne would continue further down the current path, with Bloodletters and Berzerkers ripping enemy forces apart in melee with brutal ease. Ranged firepower would be best considered, however, pathetic.
Undivided would make your force, essentially, Iron Warriors. Much more emphasis on firepower, no Daemons, but artillery and much more effective Chaos Marine squads.

But alas, too much modelling and animation work. :(

I'd buy an expansion even if it had no races as long as it fixed all the bullshit that Relic did to the game with DoW. Fix Chaos! Put them back to the way they were. Make vehicles modular again. Put the other 3 guns from the Sentinel in. Give Guard Infantry-Based AT weapons. Make Ogryn or Kasrkin Tier 2. Give Defilers and Guard Russes their splash damage back. Take the 5th fucking HW slot AWAY from Marine Tac squads. Make the game fun to play again.

BYE

I hope its Necrons.

I'd buy an expansion even if it had no races as long as it fixed all the bullshit that Relic did to the game with DoW. Fix Chaos! Put them back to the way they were. Make vehicles modular again. Put the other 3 guns from the Sentinel in. Give Guard Infantry-Based AT weapons. Make Ogryn or Kasrkin Tier 2. Give Defilers and Guard Russes their splash damage back. Take the 5th fucking HW slot AWAY from Marine Tac squads. Make the game fun to play again.

BYE

Not to seriously derail the thread, but Guardsmen with anti-vehicle/anti-building weapons would make them seriously overpowered.

Why? Because grenade launchers already do fair amount of anti-building damage and outrange LPs and turrets so a group of Guardsmen can destroy an enemy base at early game. That and IG bases are the toughest of all the races. High hitpoints, and putting troops or techpriests in them gives them weapons that do competent damage unlike Ork buildings.

And secondly, once vehicles come out, you should have Sentinels of your own. A decent amount of micro should allow you to slag most vehicles that come your way. Plus they're cheap.

Ogryns and Kasrkins tier 2? NO. WAY. Kasrkins annihilate every other late-game infantry unit except for dancing obliterators (and artillery). They're already extremely potent where they are, imagine putting them down to tier 2 where none of the other races have their own heavy hitters like terminators or obliterators. IG would annihilate every other race. Same with Ogryns, but less so since Kasrkins overshadow them.

If you're losing to an equal number of enemy with your kasrkins, you're doing something wrong. Like not dancing your troops. Or not using plasma. Or not using your frag grenades.

And Defilers have splash damage, what are you talking about? And Russes don't need splash damage. Their battlecannons do very decent anti-vehicle damage, and their bolters are adequate in warding off infantry. That and they outrange Preds.

It seems certain that the Necrons are the other new race. Aside from being the most logical choice anyway, a trustworthy source from the SA forums has said that it was confirmed to him (though not to the press, so far). Take that with a grain of salt, as always when dealing with third-hand information, but I'll be very surprised if we don't get Necrons.

Wonder if they include a C'tan. It might have to be nerfed pretty badly, but then again it could be an uber if very slow moving unit that can't be brought back once destroyed or something like that.


Either way the death animation would be kickass.

Wonder if they include a C'tan. It might have to be nerfed pretty badly, but then again it could be an uber if very slow moving unit that can't be brought back once destroyed or something like that.


Either way the death animation would be kickass.

Might just do it like the Eldar Avatar, a big kickass towering thing which costs a lot and beats people down. :p

It seems certain that the Necrons are the other new race. Aside from being the most logical choice anyway, a trustworthy source from the SA forums has said that it was confirmed to him (though not to the press, so far). Take that with a grain of salt, as always when dealing with third-hand information, but I'll be very surprised if we don't get Necrons.

Do you have stairs in your house? :V

Necrons might work, but I am worried about the lack of variety in units.

Also, that gauss flayer animation was pretty weak. I know they will probably make it nicer, but it lacked the power those weapons are supposed to have.

I'd buy an expansion even if it had no races as long as it fixed all the bullshit that Relic did to the game with DoW. Fix Chaos! Put them back to the way they were. Make vehicles modular again. Put the other 3 guns from the Sentinel in. Give Guard Infantry-Based AT weapons. Make Ogryn or Kasrkin Tier 2. Give Defilers and Guard Russes their splash damage back. Take the 5th fucking HW slot AWAY from Marine Tac squads. Make the game fun to play again.

BYE
Could you, and others here, please explain what they have done to the game?

I don't play online and don't have Winter Assault so I don't know what the patches and expansion have done.



I'd expect Tau since they are releasing the new codex. How reliable is the "no 'nids" info? Otherwise I'd say it would be Necron.

Could you, and others here, please explain what they have done to the game?

I don't play online and don't have Winter Assault so I don't know what the patches and expansion have done.

Marine Predators now come as an Annihilator model by default and can't change those guns. There are no Laspreds for Chaos. There's a "Chaos Projectiles" upgrade that upps the damage of the Pred to become good at anti-vehicle. But no lascannons.

Eldar specialization removed. Warp Spiders are now merely stronger general infantry, while Reapers are the weaker general infantry. Banshees are still CC specialists.

Chaos marine squads can only get heavy bolters I think, or was it flamers only? I don't play them so I forget which. Horrors are now anti-vehicle.

No really huge changes with the Orks I believe.

Late-tier units render early-game units obsolete. In vanilla DoW, early-game units could still be viable late game, but not so in WA. Kasrkins >>>>> Guardsmen, Assault Terminators >>>>> Tac squads, Warp Spiders >>>>> Reapers and Guardians, PSM and Oblits >>>>> CSM squads, and Orks...... Orks are kinda weak at the moment compared to the other races. They've gotten more shooty, though, which is kinda wrong.

Holy shit!

Those are massive changes to the game. Were these with Winter Assault or later additions through patches that fucked the game? Basically, should I buy Winter Assault or will it kill the game for me?

Holy shit!

Those are massive changes to the game. Were these with Winter Assault or later additions through patches that fucked the game? Basically, should I buy Winter Assault or will it kill the game for me?
You can still play vanilla Dawn of War with you origonal CD's (though its been a while since I played either). At least you used to be able to.

One good thing that came out of WA seems to be a decrease in the kind of manic, keyboard-bashing, mouse-clicking, micro-micro-intensive gameplay style that dominated 1v1 automatch in vanilla DoW, where most matches ended before 10 minutes and barely left tier 2.

Games in WA seem a little more easily-paced.

One good thing that came out of WA seems to be a decrease in the kind of manic, keyboard-bashing, mouse-clicking, micro-micro-intensive gameplay style that dominated 1v1 automatch in vanilla DoW, where most matches ended before 10 minutes and barely left tier 2.

Games in WA seem a little more easily-paced.
That is what I don't like about DoW as it is, even against the comp.

But would I be subjected to all these differences if I bought WA and played Single, or do these cahgnes come with WA?

Damn it, I wanted the Tyranids :( ah well next time...

That's a can't and won't proposition atm, the Devs have said the engine wouldn't be able to do nids' justice. The engine is rather outdated by now really.

Though the new engine they're making for that WWII game... ;7

Not to seriously derail the thread, but Guardsmen with anti-vehicle/anti-building weapons would make them seriously overpowered.

Nonsense.

Why? Because grenade launchers already do fair amount of anti-building damage and outrange LPs and turrets so a group of Guardsmen can destroy an enemy base at early game.

Then that's a problem with Grenade Launchers, and anti-infantry weapon, that should be fixed. Doesn't change the fact that they NEED weapons that can take tanks out. Actual HW's for Guard units.

That and IG bases are the toughest of all the races.

Mitigated by the fact that they have no cap upgrades and need to build heaps of them to get a sizeable army.

High hitpoints, and putting troops or techpriests in them gives them weapons that do competent damage unlike Ork buildings.

And?

And secondly, once vehicles come out, you should have Sentinels of your own. A decent amount of micro should allow you to slag most vehicles that come your way. Plus they're cheap.

The point is you shouldn't have to rely on a single unit for AT. It's all well and good to say 'Well by the time they have tanks you should have Sentinels', but the fact is there shouldn't be ONE unit only to deal with tanks. Infantry need a way to deal with vehicles, and to do that they need HW teams like they should have had in the first place. It's the Imperial Guard for fuck's sake. To not give them HW teams was a massive oversight on Relic's part.

Ogryns and Kasrkins tier 2? NO. WAY. Kasrkins annihilate every other late-game infantry unit except for dancing obliterators (and artillery). They're already extremely potent where they are, imagine putting them down to tier 2 where none of the other races have their own heavy hitters like terminators or obliterators. IG would annihilate every other race. Same with Ogryns, but less so since Kasrkins overshadow them.

I didn't say make them both Tier 2, I said one of them probably Ogryn. The other thing I'd change would be Pop 2 for Kasrkin. 3 is way too much. Leave 'em Tier 3.

If you're losing to an equal number of enemy with your kasrkins, you're doing something wrong. Like not dancing your troops. Or not using plasma. Or not using your frag grenades.

And Defilers have splash damage, what are you talking about?

They no longer send people flying. What's the point?

And Russes don't need splash damage. Their battlecannons do very decent anti-vehicle damage, and their bolters are adequate in warding off infantry. That and they outrange Preds.

And they take just as long to tech up to as a Baneblade.

BYE

There's a "Chaos Projectiles" upgrade that upps the damage of the Pred to become good at anti-vehicle. But no lascannons.

And this upgrade is required to use the Bloodthirster because, y'know, when I want to summon daemons from the warp the first thing I think of is upgrading the rounds my tanks shoot...

Winter Assault sucked the fun out of Dawn of War for me. Chaos was my fav side and they killed them.

BYE

Not to seriously derail the thread, but Guardsmen with anti-vehicle/anti-building weapons would make them seriously overpowered.

Why? Because grenade launchers already do fair amount of anti-building damage and outrange LPs and turrets so a group of Guardsmen can destroy an enemy base at early game. That and IG bases are the toughest of all the races. High hitpoints, and putting troops or techpriests in them gives them weapons that do competent damage unlike Ork buildings.

And secondly, once vehicles come out, you should have Sentinels of your own. A decent amount of micro should allow you to slag most vehicles that come your way. Plus they're cheap.

Ogryns and Kasrkins tier 2? NO. WAY. Kasrkins annihilate every other late-game infantry unit except for dancing obliterators (and artillery). They're already extremely potent where they are, imagine putting them down to tier 2 where none of the other races have their own heavy hitters like terminators or obliterators. IG would annihilate every other race. Same with Ogryns, but less so since Kasrkins overshadow them.

If you're losing to an equal number of enemy with your kasrkins, you're doing something wrong. Like not dancing your troops. Or not using plasma. Or not using your frag grenades.

And Defilers have splash damage, what are you talking about? And Russes don't need splash damage. Their battlecannons do very decent anti-vehicle damage, and their bolters are adequate in warding off infantry. That and they outrange Preds.


Good job summing up the current issues this patch. You forgot Assault Termies with their uber stun, and Orks need a little love.

Nonsense. Then that's a problem with Grenade Launchers, and anti-infantry weapon, that should be fixed. Doesn't change the fact that they NEED weapons that can take tanks out. Actual HW's for Guard units.

Sents do the job perfectly well and are most cost effective av for a modest price of 150/150.

Guard do not need more AV, but it would be fluffy if the balance was shifted so sents are not the end all of IG AV until Russes.

Mitigated by the fact that they have no cap upgrades and need to build heaps of them to get a sizeable army.

The first IC gives you enough cap to build three guard squads and lock them in with commies and grenades which will scale into tier two when you'll start building sents. ICs are cheap.




The point is you shouldn't have to rely on a single unit for AT. It's all well and good to say 'Well by the time they have tanks you should have Sentinels', but the fact is there shouldn't be ONE unit only to deal with tanks. Infantry need a way to deal with vehicles, and to do that they need HW teams like they should have had in the first place. It's the Imperial Guard for fuck's sake. To not give them HW teams was a massive oversight on Relic's part.

I agree that HW teams should have been included. I dissagree that IG actually need HW teams with the current strength and cheapness of the Sentinal.

I didn't say make them both Tier 2, I said one of them probably Ogryn. The other thing I'd change would be Pop 2 for Kasrkin. 3 is way too much. Leave 'em Tier 3.

Kasrkin would utterly rape other tier three units at 2 cap with priest and commies to buff them.

If you're losing to an equal number of enemy with your kasrkins, you're doing something wrong. Like not dancing your troops. Or not using plasma. Or not using your frag grenades.

Kasrkin frags are equivelent to WW rockets in disruption. Kasrkin frags are deadly.


And they take just as long to tech up to as a Baneblade.

BYE

Baneblade needs a serious buff since now its just barely better then a Russ, and thats only because they take the same cap.

Nonsense.

Even without Commissars, IG have the strongest Tier 1 capability, aside from maybe against Eldar. No accuracy penalty whilst on the move, slightly higher armour class than most other infantry, cheap reinforcement cost, and effective grenade launchers. And once you add plasma to the mix, you have people who can keep dancing without accuracy penalties and pour on the plasma fire and watch your enemies go down like flies.

Then that's a problem with Grenade Launchers, and anti-infantry weapon, that should be fixed. Doesn't change the fact that they NEED weapons that can take tanks out. Actual HW's for Guard units.

Like I said, they're already strong enough, and adding anti-tank weapons for Guardsmen would tip the balance even more in IG's favor.

And Sentinels and Russes do the anti-vehicle job well enough.

Mitigated by the fact that they have no cap upgrades and need to build heaps of them to get a sizeable army.

Yes, you have to build more infantry commands and mechanized commands to increase cap, but that's also many more production buildings for you to spam units out of. And I'm surt you didn't know this, but infantry commands produce a sizable control zone, so you can expand your base outside your normal perimeter.

And?

And you need wittier retorts.

The point is you shouldn't have to rely on a single unit for AT. It's all well and good to say 'Well by the time they have tanks you should have Sentinels', but the fact is there shouldn't be ONE unit only to deal with tanks. Infantry need a way to deal with vehicles, and to do that they need HW teams like they should have had in the first place. It's the Imperial Guard for fuck's sake. To not give them HW teams was a massive oversight on Relic's part.

First, the game is not exactly representative of the fluff. Get over it.

And secondly, like I already mentioned, IG infantry are superbly good against all other races' infantry; giving them good AV capability would throw them clear into the imbalanced zone.

And lastly, Sentinels are GOOD at what they do. Paper-thin, but cheap, really strong punch, and really fast.

I didn't say make them both Tier 2, I said one of them probably Ogryn. The other thing I'd change would be Pop 2 for Kasrkin. 3 is way too much. Leave 'em Tier 3.

You did say one of them, either Ogryn or Kasrkin, not just Ogryn, to be precise, but anyway 2 pop for Kasrkin is also insane. They can already wipe the floor with nearly every other tier 3 infantry like terminators---making them 2 pop would be ludicrous.

They no longer send people flying. What's the point?

I think you're mistaking the autocannon for the battlecannon. The Defiler battlecannon is still artillery in all sense and knocks people around. That other gun that was overpowered in 1.3 is the autocannon.

And they take just as long to tech up to as a Baneblade.

BYE

Which is fine cause you have Sentinels to wipe out any enemy vehicles until then, when stuff that can really put Sentinels to misery start coming out, at which point your Russes will start rolling out, and IG reach that tier a little faster than the other races.

Even without Commissars, IG have the strongest Tier 1 capability, aside from maybe against Eldar. No accuracy penalty whilst on the move, slightly higher armour class than most other infantry, cheap reinforcement cost, and effective grenade launchers. And once you add plasma to the mix, you have people who can keep dancing without accuracy penalties and pour on the plasma fire and watch your enemies go down like flies.

And once again, this is a problem with the Grenade Launcher, it shouldn't be that effective.

And Sentinels and Russes do the anti-vehicle job well enough.

Both vehicles. You need alternate ways of dealing with enemy tanks that infantry can handle, and not an overpowered Grenade Launcher.

And you need wittier retorts.

I usually save those for people who are worth it...

First, the game is not exactly representative of the fluff. Get over it.

You say that every time I make comments about Dawn of War.

I am talking about the balance and the fun. Chaos is not fun any more. This doesn't have a fucking thing to do with fluff. Please stop telling me to 'get over it'.

It is a serious balance misatake to give a race only one viable anti-vehicle weapon. "Use them wisley" isn't an excuse. It isn't fun to have to rely on a single unit for anti-tank work. No other race has to, and up until Winter Assasult fuX0red with the very nature of the game, the whole point of the game was the sheer customisability of units.

And lastly, Sentinels are GOOD at what they do. Paper-thin, but cheap, really strong punch, and really fast.

Great. I don't care. I shouldn't have to build a single unit if I want to have a hope in hell of killing anything.

You did say one of them, either Ogryn or Kasrkin, not just Ogryn, to be precise

And? So? But? Therefore? Do you enjoy nitpicking? Does it make you feel better? Yes, I did say one or the other. So fucking sue me.

They can already wipe the floor with nearly every other tier 3 infantry like terminators---making them 2 pop would be ludicrous.

Ok, fair enough. Ogryn then.

I think you're mistaking the autocannon for the battlecannon. The Defiler battlecannon is still artillery in all sense and knocks people around. That other gun that was overpowered in 1.3 is the autocannon.

...and IG reach that tier a little faster than the other races.

Yes, especially now that every race has the "research the ability to research Tier 3 units" option. You know what isn't fun in RTS games, having to research something in every game that doesn't actually give you anything except the option to do more research.

BYE

And once again, this is a problem with the Grenade Launcher, it shouldn't be that effective.

As long as it doesn't become imbalanced, it's fine as it is.

Both vehicles. You need alternate ways of dealing with enemy tanks that infantry can handle, and not an overpowered Grenade Launcher.

And they come out when the other races' vehicles come out, so there really isn't a problem. Sounds more like a personal beef to me.

It is a serious balance misatake to give a race only one viable anti-vehicle weapon. "Use them wisley" isn't an excuse. It isn't fun to have to rely on a single unit for anti-tank work. No other race has to, and up until Winter Assasult fuX0red with the very nature of the game, the whole point of the game was the sheer customisability of units.

It's only a serious balance mistake if it makes IG weaker or stronger in comparison to the other races, and it doesn't, so it's again your personal opinion on what should be fun.

Great. I don't care. I shouldn't have to build a single unit if I want to have a hope in hell of killing anything.

It's your personal preference.

And? So? But? Therefore? Do you enjoy nitpicking? Does it make you feel better? Yes, I did say one or the other. So fucking sue me.

Yes, yes, it does make me feel better.

Yes, especially now that every race has the "research the ability to research Tier 3 units" option. You know what isn't fun in RTS games, having to research something in every game that doesn't actually give you anything except the option to do more research.

BYE

That's your personal idea of fun, which I, as a TA fan, do agree with but don't needlessly whine about.

The reduced customizability was definatley a step back in Winter assult, Ogryns should have been tier2...

Customizability, yea. I like the sound of that. WA really doesn't have it as much as vanilla, luckily theres DowPro that will turn everything into vanilla style again.

I'd like to see the ability to customize your sentenels, it's a bit innacurate to have Armaggedon Pattern Sentenls with Las-cannons for a Cadian Force which should have Auto-Cannons.

Attachabe heavy weapons for the guard would be nice but unbalancing beyond, say Grenade launchers and plasma, although adding in flamethrowers and sniper rifles would be good and det-pack substitutes for Grenades as well.

Heavy weapons squads are a must for the Guard, you need them to make the play balanced, all other forces have infantry based AT and Heavy weapons available for their units, the Guard is the only force that lacks the capability to specify and customize with heavy weapons. Making Auto-Cannons, Heavy Bolters, Mortars and Missile Launchers a Heavy Weapons Squad specific piece of equipment would allow for a modicum of flexibility for the Guard infantry without relying on vehicles.

I am talking about the balance and the fun. Chaos is not fun any more. This doesn't have a fucking thing to do with fluff. Please stop telling me to 'get over it'.

That was just an overreaction from people saying that they played too much from SM. Me being a chaos player, I tended to agree with that statement somewhat, though they did go too far with it. A better idea would have been to merely make chaos have a tougher job getting to HWs( 3 hvy weapons max only, double the costs of each HW) along with a Beserker nerf are possibly buffs to Horrors to confirm their place as the *real* AV unit in the game. Getting the predator annihilators back would be nice too while removing chaos projectiles as a prequisitie to Bloodthirster.

That was just an overreaction from people saying that they played too much from SM. Me being a chaos player, I tended to agree with that statement somewhat, though they did go too far with it. A better idea would have been to merely make chaos have a tougher job getting to HWs( 3 hvy weapons max only, double the costs of each HW) along with a Beserker nerf are possibly buffs to Horrors to confirm their place as the *real* AV unit in the game. Getting the predator annihilators back would be nice too while removing chaos projectiles as a prequisitie to Bloodthirster.

Zerkers already got a building and vehicle nerf in 1.41 and horrors are your only dedicated AV troop for Chaos. Chaos Marines need their four slots back with flamers and rockets as options along with a nice bionics upgrade and another Zerker nerf (still too good).

People need to catch up with the times man...

Well, I think it'll be either Nid's or Sisters to go along with Tau. They're probably going to release in an Imperial Non-Imperial order.

Nope, definitely not nids. Relic even said that there DOW engine is not good enough for nids. And Sisters are just not popular enough.

That's a can't and won't proposition atm, the Devs have said the engine wouldn't be able to do nids' justice. The engine is rather outdated by now really.

Though the new engine they're making for that WWII game... ;7
Not gonna happen until DOW 2 comes out (if it ever does)

Chaos Marines need their four slots back with flamers and rockets as options along with a nice bionics upgrade and another Zerker nerf

Only if the SM keep 5.

Only if the SM keep 5.
No thanks!! SM would still be too uber considering the sarge can carry a plasma gun himself.

No thanks!! SM would still be too uber considering the sarge can carry a plasma gun himself.

And the Aspiring Champ can't? No, Chaos shouldn't have their heavy weapons, lest they become what is basically SMs with a few extra melee units.

And the Aspiring Champ can't? No, Chaos shouldn't have their heavy weapons, lest they become what is basically SMs with a few extra melee units.

...which is basically what original DoW was like. People complained about that, and I can see why they did. If I looked at my build order STRAIGHT TO TIER 3 and changed a few things, I suddenly had an SM build order. If that's the case, why have Chaos in the game past fluff reasons?

Customizability, yea. I like the sound of that. WA really doesn't have it as much as vanilla, luckily theres DowPro that will turn everything into vanilla style again.
I'd just like to reiterate that DOWpro (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=81049&page=1&pp=15) is an incredibly good mod, and it's possible to get online games going with it (using their ladder on Gamedrome or using their IRC channel). When I first tried it, I was amazed at how much fun it was. Everything was extremely well balanced. I'll never go back to basic Winter Assault now. DOWpro is just too much of an improvement.

By the way, I just noticed a very interesting analysis of Tier 1 Imperial Guard, in Winter Assault. I was really surprised by what it said. You can find it here (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=85177).