Up-scaling via component

i dont think you can upscale via component mate.

HD-DVD will be the first, though not available yet - Toshiba will be the first to launch and they will be followed by Sony and the Blu-Ray crowd.
These players will output 720P and should do it via component but you've got a bit of a wait on.

The Snazio 1350 can upscale through component to 720p etc. as you can disable CSS liscensing, have a look here! (http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/displayreview.php?reviewid=6598)(procedure for removing CSS is shown also)
Details / specs can be found here! (http://www.snazzishop.co.uk/netdvd.asp)

There appear to be some conflicting statements here. Can you or can't you upscale via component?
Does this depend on the player i.e. a feature on more expensive players?

Thanks

On the most part you can't.
It's down to the player; most mainstream players will not allow upscaling over component, HDMI / DVI are used for this.
There are a few players on which you can unlock this feature, the Snazio 1350 is one of these!

Here (http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/products/HVD2085/feature.asp) is another one, Helios HVD2085, even upcales to 1080p over component too apparently.

Thanks, I have a Denon 3910, what should I be looking for to see if this feature is supported? (The manual is useless.)

Cheers

I'm pretty much 100% sure it won't be supported on your player.
Upscaling over component is not at all common as it usually requires the circumvention of copy protection, which is illegal.

OK, that clears up the denon question but regarding copy protection, i read in the Sky HD thread the the new HD Box circumvents CP via it's component output? or have I misunderstood?

TBH I'm not really sure what copy protection sky programmes have, especially seeing as the Sky HD box has Sky + recording functionality; in which case you are copying it to a HDD :rolleyes:
I do believe that Sky HD will be ouputting HD through component as well as HDMI, but I haven't really looked into it much at all.
I also believe that we will be getting more and more HD over component in the future. The Toshiba HD-DVD players already (in USA) upscale DVD's to HD resolutions through HDMI, but in the future HD-DVD / BD may well also output over component in full HD, until everyone has caught up with the HDMI bandwagon.

The SkyHD Box does output HD over component.

Upscaling on the above mentioned DVD players does not mean you will be watching HD from the DVD player - it just means it will display a picture (if it works that is)

Just to clarify,

I'm not looking for HD from an SD-player, merely seeking to match the native res of my projector (720P) using component from a 'standard' DVD player.

I cannot use HDMI or DVI without rewiring the room, and realise that most players do not o/put 720P via component due to licensing restrictions.

However, SKY HD will, and it appears that the Snazio SZ1350, along with maybe a couple of others do.....

Job done then!

But are they any good?

Hello Mick

The real strength of the SnaZio SZ1350 is not its ability to upscale standard definition DVD Video discs to 720p and 1080i on YUV its real strength is its ability to stream 720p and 1080i *.TS, DivX HD and WMV9 High Definition files to your Projector.

With the system shown in your signature you really ought to be looking at a Video Processor from the likes of Crystalio, DVDO, Lumagen etc and plumb all of your Standard and High Definition sources into the processor and output optimised 1280x720 pixel signals at 50Hz and 60Hz on a Digital or Analogue connection (RGBHV I guess with the Action Model 2).

The SnaZio works relatively well at up converting 480i and 576i to all manner of video signal formats - inc 720p and 1080i but that's not its main forte.

Very few DVD players up-convert to 720p and 1080i on YUV as the majority of the big Japanese and American manufacturers agreed to restrict that process to an encrypted HDMI output.

Outputting 720p from SKY HD has to be in the 'wait and see' column as SKY have now said the HD channels it controls will be transmitting 1080i - therefore your relying on the deinterlacing within the SKY box to sort out a 720p signal from a 1080i broadcast stream; again another good reason to push the budget to include an external Video Processor.

Best regards

Joe

There appear to be some conflicting statements here. Can you or can't you upscale via component?
Does this depend on the player i.e. a feature on more expensive players?

Thanks


I had a sammy hd850 and when you entered the multi region hack it also allowed 720p and 1080i upscaling via component, absolutely definately. When the hacks in the options change in the set up menu. It gave a good picture too i might add, was indistinguisable from the hdmi feed other than a little softer. I beleive the hd 950 also does this

Joe (& others),
thanks for all the feedback, its been really useful. I agree with Joe's comments that maybe a scaler is the way to go, as I want a player with strong audio as well as video output, ie Marantz DV7600,9600, or Arcam,etc.

The Snazio seems to hit a different market, and obviously is designed for other benefits.

Maybe I'll wait till my Sky HD is installed, and re-check my options,

Thanks again,

Mick.

Hello Mick

The real strength of the SnaZio SZ1350 is not its ability to upscale standard definition DVD Video discs to 720p and 1080i on YUV its real strength is its ability to stream 720p and 1080i *.TS, DivX HD and WMV9 High Definition files to your Projector.

With the system shown in your signature you really ought to be looking at a Video Processor from the likes of Crystalio, DVDO, Lumagen etc and plumb all of your Standard and High Definition sources into the processor and output optimised 1280x720 pixel signals at 50Hz and 60Hz on a Digital or Analogue connection (RGBHV I guess with the Action Model 2).

The SnaZio works relatively well at up converting 480i and 576i to all manner of video signal formats - inc 720p and 1080i but that's not its main forte.

Very few DVD players up-convert to 720p and 1080i on YUV as the majority of the big Japanese and American manufacturers agreed to restrict that process to an encrypted HDMI output.

Outputting 720p from SKY HD has to be in the 'wait and see' column as SKY have now said the HD channels it controls will be transmitting 1080i - therefore your relying on the deinterlacing within the SKY box to sort out a 720p signal from a 1080i broadcast stream; again another good reason to push the budget to include an external Video Processor.

Best regards

Joe

So from what we've learned in this thread, my denon 3910 won't upscale over component. However, my projector has a DCDi Faroudja chip (same as the denon). It is native 1280 X 720. Therefore it will upscale the component signal when it arrives? and I'm sorted.
Or am I way up the wrong tree here?

Thanks

Hello GliderRider

You need to bark up Two Trees :)

If your Projector has 1280x720 pixels then it definitely has some form of scaling engine on-board - though often they don't get the same 'billing' as other 'built inside' technologies.

The Faroudja DCDi processor in your Projector is a Deinterlacer not a scaling engine - so its only involved if you send in an Interlaced signal and once its done its stuff then something else within the projector handles the scaling; http://www.meridian-audio.com/faroudja/technology.html

Best regards

Joe

Ah! right, that makes sense. It's all becoming a little clearer.
Cheers :smashin:

Er, actually it's got a bit muddy again.:eek:
I can't figure out why the component looks just as good as HDMI from my Denon if there isn't anything fancy going on with the signal?
(Not complaining, just curious):lease:

Obviously the scaler in your display is just as good as the scaler in your DVD player. For HDMI your using the DVD player's scaler and for Component your using the display's.

That is the reason it is only really worthwhile getting an upscaling DVD player if it's scaler is superior to that of your display's.

My old Yamakawa 365 appears to output everything (including custom resolutions) over all its outputs including component via scart. It's a pre HDCP DVI era machine and although it delivers a cracking picture theres no way I'd describe it as a quality player.

I love the idea of it being 'illegal' - is that the knock of the Video Resolutions Squad of New Scotland Yard at the door?:rotfl:

Obviously the scaler in your display is just as good as the scaler in your DVD player. For HDMI your using the DVD player's scaler and for Component your using the display's.

That is the reason it is only really worthwhile getting an upscaling DVD player if it's scaler is superior to that of your display's.


I thought that a screens scaler is always scaling unless its fed the native res, so if you use hdmi on anything other than the native resolution the screens scaler is at work, in fact the image may well be getting scaled twice.

This subject always crops up and i'm still not 100% certain that its the players scaler and not the screen when feeding native res, it just seems most logical answer.

I have heard of a DVD player by a company called NeoDigits that can do 1080p via component and HDMI http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/products/HVD2085/feature.asp

I thought that a screens scaler is always scaling unless its fed the native res, so if you use hdmi on anything other than the native resolution the screens scaler is at work, in fact the image may well be getting scaled twice.
This is all true!
I was assuming that he was feeding his screen it's native res, so that the DVD player would do all the scaling and the screen would not need to.
It is also true that many screens have native res's otherthan 1280x720 (or 1920x1080) e.g. 1366x768 etc.
In this case there will be major scaling in the DVD player, 576i to 720p, and minor scaling in the display, 720p to 768p.
This is a reason why I bought a display with a native resolution of 1280x720.

I have heard of a DVD player by a company called NeoDigits that can do 1080p via component and HDMI http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/pr...85/feature.asp
I did link this one earlier.
This player also has the added bonus of having non-standard output resolutions over VGA and HDMI e.g. 1024x768 etc.

You can buy the Neodigits player and get it shipped over as the company delivers worldwide.
Are there any reviews out there for this player? It does seem to be very capable with a 16bit 149MHz DAC and other benefits over the typical players for around ?20.

... but why do people think that standard definition DVD players would be circumventing any kind of licensing agreement or copy protection by outputting upscaled signals via their component outputs?

It will certainly be the case that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray formats will only offer downscaled signals over component, reserving the good stuff for HDMI/HDCP, but for normal DVD players what comes out of where is purely an implementation decision.

Of course, reserving upscaled outputs to HDMI could just be part of a cynical strategy to try to hasten the switchover to that standard...

I had a sammy hd850 and when you entered the multi region hack it also allowed 720p and 1080i upscaling via component, absolutely definately. When the hacks in the options change in the set up menu. It gave a good picture too i might add, was indistinguisable from the hdmi feed other than a little softer. I beleive the hd 950 also does this
I can also confirm this to be the case. When hacked, the HD950 enables upscaling via component and the results are very good.

I can also confirm this to be the case. When hacked, the HD950 enables upscaling via component and the results are very good.


Just done my 950 today and i can also confirm :)